Target Audience -- male or female?

[Takai]

Lately i've been noticing that there is a lot more anime in seinen and shounen demographic (seinen targeting young men and shounen targeting teenage boys) than in josei and shoujo (josei targeting young women and shoujo targeting teenage girls).
Especially it's hard not to notice the adaptations of visual novels and dating games. More and more games of that type get adapted into anime these days, but even in this area, a number of adaptations that target male audience is a lot larger than for female audience.
Let's exclude yaoi/shounen-ai and yuri/shoujo-ai out of this and look at visual novels or romantic simulation game adaptations. How many full-fledged adaptations (talking about full seasons of anime here, not stand-alone OVAs or specials) from the male-targeting visual novels are out there? Tons. Off the top of my head: Clannad, Kanon, Shuffle, Air, White Album, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Myself Yourself, Tokimeki Memorial Only Love... there are a lot more that i just can't think of at the moment.
Now what about full-fledged adaptations (once again, series only) of female-targeting visual novels? Let's see... the famous Neoromance trio -- HaruToki, La Corda D'Oro and Angelique. and Meine Liebe. Those are the only series i can think of off the top of my head, the rest are OVAs and specials.
The funny thing is Tokimeki Memorial has visual novels for both female and male audience; there are different games, and yet only the male-targeting one gets made into anime! Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side isn't popular enough? Nonsense, it's everywhere. There are a lot of popular ones. And yet male-targeting visual novels get adapted into anime nearly on a monthly basis.

Out of curiousity, i looked at the list of the latest anime (currently airing and about to air within a month of now), and took the first 30 titles. (i'm not making this up, you can find it on a site like myanimelist)
This is the list, as well as the target audience (male or female) that i took time to research:

1. Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0 -- male
2. Souken ni Haseru Yume -- male
3. Chocolate Underground the Movie -- ???
4. Pyu to Fuku! Jaguar the Movie -- male
5. Shikabane Hime: Kuro -- male
6. Maria-sama ga Miteru 4 -- female
7. White Album -- "Adapted from the Leaf eroge", so male
8. Akikan -- male
9. Maria+Holic -- ???
10. Minami-ke Okaeri -- male
11. Zoku Natsume Yuujinchou -- female
12. Sora wo Kakeru Shoujo -- male
13. Hajime no Ippo: New Challenger -- male
14. Viper's Creed -- male
15. Tower of Druaga - the Sword of Uruk -- male
16. Asu no Youichi -- male
17. Kurokami -- male
18. Tetsuwan Birdy Decode:02 -- male
19. Kokaku no Regios -- ???
20. Major season 5 -- male
21. Kemono no Souja Erin -- ???
22. Kupu~!! Mamegoma -- female
23. Ride Back -- male
24. Slayers Evolution-R -- male
25. Yume wo Kanaeru Zou -- ???
26. Genji Monogatari -- female
27. Ichigo Mashimaro Encore -- male
28. Axis Powers Hetalia -- male
29. Afro Samurai: Resurrection -- male
30. Street Fighter ~Aratanaru Kizuna~ -- male

some i could not find definite information on, but out of known ones:
male target audience: 21
female target audience: 4

I don't think i need to translate those numbers into percentages for you to see what i'm getting at. :|

What do you guys think? Since when did anime become so one-sided? Or has it always been like this and i never noticed?

[Brian]

What do you guys think? Since when did anime become so one-sided? Or has it always been like this and i never noticed?
My guess - and it's only a guess - is that this may be somewhat due to the growing audience outside of Japan. Romance and drama frequently contain a lot of cultural assumptions or references, which may not translate well. Mecha, ninjas and even the "fan-service" stuff has a more universal appeal, so that's what most people are exposed to. I'd wager that a fourth of the people attending an anime convention would be surprised to learn that there is manga written specifically for adult women. So it turns into a cycle; people see the male-oriented stories and want more, therefore more male-oriented stories are produced and distributed.

Look at the comic book and computer game market in America - very few of them are targeted towards girls. Publishers aren't going to produce stuff if they don't think there's a market for it.

[Takai]

I know that male-targeting anime and manga is more popular in general, there is no debate about it. If i look at my own list, most of the anime i enjoyed were seinen. And most of the girls i know prefer shounen over any other category. Most of the anime fans too probably.

Romance and drama frequently contain a lot of cultural assumptions or references, which may not translate well. Mecha, ninjas and even the "fan-service" stuff has a more universal appeal, so that's what most people are exposed to.
That's rather stereotypical thinking though. Romance and drama does not define specifically female target audience; there are a lot of those in both sides of the demographic. I would name quite a few good romance anime in both seinen/shounen and josei/shoujo areas. And there is a lot, a lot of male-targeting romance series even right now, and they're actually starting to outnumber the female-targeting romance. That's, however, mainly because male-targeting dating games keep being adapted into anime one after another =/ Even though there are quite a lot of female-targeting dating games that are equally popular but become overshadowed (coming back to the Tokimeki Memorial example). Not that i don't like Clannad for instance, i love it, but there are so many visual novels for girls that also have good stories and characters, and all they get is 2 OVAs at most =/

I'd wager that a fourth of the people attending an anime convention would be surprised to learn that there is manga written specifically for adult women.
True. And josei is actually the only minority out of the 4 demographic categories. Nodame Cantabile, Honey and Clover, Nana... and i get stuck. And even those 3 manga are mainly this well-known because they got turned into anime. Anime version is usually censored down, and you wouldn't notice it until you research, but i've been wondering what kind of manga some of these new anime are based on, and a good half of the ones i looked into were based on an ecchi manga =/

I know that what you're saying is true. It's just kinda sad to see this one-sided situation, and that people don't really care that much. I don't think there are many people who even wonder what the target audience for the anime they like is. My judgement of anime doesn't change at all, be it shounen or shoujo, but it makes me a little sad. :roll:

[frank]

I think male targeting has always been more prevalent than a balanced offering of presentations. There may be many reasons for this, ranging from outright prejudicial attitudes, to the always major concern of any studio, producer, network, etc. Profitability.

I think there are more men producing, creating, distributing, sponsoring, and supporting anime for male targeted audiences than there are women. Also, male populations, generally, have more discretionary income and discretionary time available to them.

I have noticed over the years, that most anime, even the ones that are totally female oriented and female populated, will have the characters costumed in dress that appeals to men. Regardless of genre, I think that's a safe observation to make.

I think that the shapely, generally closely tailored apparel, and general attitudes of anime females and men also, are apreciated by both men and women, boys and girls, and when it comes to a producer looking for a well-paying sponsor, the old advertising slogan, "Sex sells!" will always be a primary consideration.

It may be that as wealth and power begin to assume more of a balance among men and women, the attitudes I've mentioned will very likely change. They would have to. Unless women in anime also recognize that there is a greater attraction for both, male and female populations, when anime characters retain what seems to be a defining characteristic--sensuality.

It may be entirely possible, also, that the targeting of male audiences instead of female audiences, is a consideration that began in Japan, was successfull, and then, naturally, spread on an international level as anime, itself, became international. In other words,"they created the model, it worked, and no one is eager to 'fix what ain't broke.'"

Your research is truly formidable, and one that not even I would want to try, even though I don't mind research and the acumulation of specifically oriented data, still--your efforts and presentation are complimented.

None of my presentation offers any supportng data or research. It is a houghtful consideration of some of these things--my having been on some other sides, other than as audience or spectatior--and which have directed my thinking about your question.

Which was a good one, by the way. *happy face* Just because..... ^^

[Takai]

There is something going on that wasn't present in the earlier anime. That is, while the current anime is mostly targeting male audience, it has elements that are appealing to both male and female viewers. Sometimes, it's even difficult to tell by first glance whether the anime is in male or female demographic. So that people like me don't complain that there isn't enough anime specifically for girls, shounen and seinen, in reality, is targeting both boys/men and girls/women.

So we can really compare side by side, let's take a look at something that's been present since the late 70s and is still present today. Yes, Mobile Suit Gundam. More specifically, the character designs of male characters.

Mobile Suit Gundam 1979-1980:
http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/1/1335.jpg http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/10/34186.jpg

Mobile Suit Gundam Wing 1995-1996:
http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/9/10283.jpg http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/4/11987.jpg

Mobile Suit Gundam Seed 2002-2003:
http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/2/10866.jpg http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/5/6892.jpg

Mobile Suit Gundam 00 (most current, 2007-):
http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/12/29192.jpg http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/16/22780.jpg

If this isn't a road toward attracting female audience, then i don't know what this is :roll: Surely, i'm not the only one who sees those guys going from manly/boyish into less manly and more feminine. Like the 'crack' page in Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro manga said, "Women in Japan do not go for muscle-bound freaks. They ardently wish for skinny young pretty boys!" And not only in Japan apparently. I'm not gonna do a crazy detailed research on the history of Gundam popularity, because this would take way too long, but i can bet you that the current Gundam series has much -much- more female fans than the older ones.
Oh, and a fun fact: the character designer of Gundam 00 is none other than Kouga Yun, a mangaka that specialized in shounen-ai, and is famous for titles of said genre, such as Loveless and Earthian. And who is the target audience for shounen-ai? You guessed it -- girls. And i'm not gonna deny the fact that Gundam 00 caught my attention because the main character is like a (slightly older) copy of Ritsuka from Loveless, minus the cat ears.

And Gundam isn't the only case. If anyone is interested, i can also present the differences in character designs between the original Terra e... movie and the 2007 remake :P

[The Guiltiest Gear]

if you wanna be technical the original gundam is still going in book form,although the last canonical anime of the UC timeline was produced in 1988.heh...my love of the original showing,Kill em All Tomino was notorious for realism in his art(and killing most of the cast....).Something new gundam series are severly lacking,drama. >.>

I actually think Rideback is an anime more aimed at females,call me crazy but I dont think most guys would watch an anime about a ballerina on a motorcycle but I could be wrong lol.

I wouldnt say theres less aimed at girls,probably its more accurate to say the popular and more well known ones are aimed at males while the short ones no one knows exists are usually aimed at girls.

[Takai]

When i did my little research, i looked at both popular and not so popular anime. I wasn't looking only at the top 100 material. In general, looking even at every little unknown OVA, there is more anime that is aimed at male audience. And we're not talking 1-2 titles more. Two or three times more.

if you wanna be technical the original gundam is still going in book form
I'm addressing only anime in this topic as i don't read enough manga to make a general statement.

I actually think Rideback is an anime more aimed at females,call me crazy but I dont think most guys would watch an anime about a ballerina on a motorcycle but I could be wrong lol.
Like i said, they're trying to make seinen and shounen a some kind of "universal" anime demographic. Thus, they try to make seinen and shounen appealing to both genders. Rideback is technically seinen. It's just that lately us girls don't have much of a choice but to get attracted to male-targeting anime; i mean there is hardly any that is aimed specifically at us girls o.o lol I wouldn't be too surprised if eventually we'd be left only with shounen and seinen >_> But one thing they can't take away -- they'll never be able to combine both shounen romance and shoujo romance into one title. No matter how you look at it, it's too different to put together.

[Takai]

Also, there is a lot of seinen out there that i would watch and say "is this really aimed at young men? O_o" For example, Victorian Romance Emma. I would never expect an old-fashioned love story between an aristocrat and a maid to fall into a seinen category. But this isn't what this topic is about. I don't want to question what is seinen and what is not. Demographics are a fact so to speak; we may disagree but we can't argue -- if the original author says that (s)he is aiming his/her work at young men, then it's a work aiming at young men. Just wanted to make this clear.
(Sorry for double post; it's a separate thought.)

[frank]

No problem with the double post.

But I think you're right. There does seem to be more of a tendency to present male figures with more feminine attitudes and appearances. But not any more so than presenting women/girls with more male orientation in their dress and actions. The fighting female, for example, has always been attractive to both--male and female audiences. Also, I'm noticing that female characters are losing their subservient roles--if they ever really had any.

The action-oriented female character that can assume a duality of roles--projecting herself into either, a more masculine attitude or a more feminine attitude, has always been popular. Among younger or older viewers. The male characters, though, have limits to how far they can adopt a feminine attitude without becoming offensive, generally. I think female audiences will accept yaoi much less readily than they will yuri. My references here are are more geared to outlining an attitude than specifically lesbianism or homosexualism. And definitely don't include any hentai aspects at all.

But, again, dealing with general cultural attitudes, yuri relationships are much easier to find attractive than yaoi. As a general statement, I think that holds true and also influences the kinds of anime that are produced.

[Kawaii-chan]

Yuri would be most attractive then yaoi.
I mean come on its..xP
Usually you can tell when an anime is more directed towards males or females.
Usually males are the one with exaggerated body parts,sex storylines,etc.
Typically,female animes are ones that are frilly,have the romance(chicky-flicks!),the bestfriends and soft storylines/plots.

[Fuu]

i think animes shouldnt be divided between Male and Female audience (Shonen and Shojo). Because i know lots of women who prefere a Shonen than a Shojo, and lots of boys who watch Shojo animes too. I like both types of series for example xD
I think that with categorizing an anime for being "romance" or "action" or "ecchi" or whatever should be enough.

[Takai]

Usually you can tell when an anime is more directed towards males or females.
Usually males are the one with exaggerated body parts,sex storylines,etc.
Typically,female animes are ones that are frilly,have the romance(chicky-flicks!),the bestfriends and soft storylines/plots.
Contrary to the popular belief, this is not true at all. If you read all my posts in this thread, you will see what i mean. No, male-targeting anime is not all about exaggerated body parts, sexual themes, etc. And no, female-targeting anime is not all cheesy romance. There are mystery series, horror series, without any romance at all, that fall into shoujo demographic. And there is more than enough romance (without ecchi!) in the shounen demographic. And, believe me, there are manga artists that specialize in shoujo romance with -ecchi- in it, so that eliminates the whole "ecchi is only for boys" theory altogether. That's why i'm saying that the two are becoming so close that it's becoming difficult to differentiate.

@Fuu, I agree. And especially these days, when shoujo/shounen and josei/seinen are so similar, it really makes no sense. A list of genres and an age rating is more than enough. I do think there is a need to separate shoujo from josei and shounen from seinen though; there is a lot more difference between -age based- target audiences than -gender based- target audiences.